Improving Housing in Alaska, the Power of Quantum Computing, and Pairing Salt and Perovskites

In this episode of The NREL Podcast, hosts Kerrin Jeromin and Taylor Mankle take listeners across the United States to explore three very different—but equally impactful—stories from the lab, including: 

• A look at NREL’s work with the Chilkat Indian Village to improve housing in Klukwan, a remote Alaskan village facing a housing emergency. Discover how retrofits, health assessments, and workforce development are bringing warmth and opportunity to the community. 
• NREL’s partnership with regional quantum companies to develop benchmarks that could revolutionize energy systems, from the grid to storage. 
• How even solar cells are better with salt. This simple ingredient is helping scientists at NREL enhance the performance and durability of perovskite solar cells. 

This episode was hosted by Kerrin Jeromin and Taylor Mankle, written and produced by Allison Montroy, Hannah Halusker, and Kaitlyn Stottler, and edited by James Wilcox, Joe DelNero, and Brittany Falch. Graphics are by Brittnee Gayet. Our title music is written and performed by Ted Vaca and episode music by Chuck Kurnik, Jim Riley, and Mark Sanseverino of Drift BC. Transforming Energy: The NREL Podcast is created by the U.S. Department of Energy’s National Renewable Energy Laboratory in Golden, Colorado. Email us at podcast@nrel.gov. Follow NREL on X, Instagram, LinkedIn, YouTube, Threads, and Facebook.

Transcript

[intro music, fades] 

Kerrin: Welcome to The NREL Podcast, brought to you by the U.S. Department of Energy’s National Renewable Energy Laboratory. We’re highlighting the latest in advanced energy research and innovations happening at the lab. It’s Wednesday, May 28th. I’m Kerrin Jeromin. 

Taylor: And I’m Taylor Mankle.  

Kerrin: We’ve got a little bit of everything in today’s episode, Taylor– housing in Alaska, the power of quantum computing, and finding out what happens when you add salt to perovskite solar cells.  

Taylor: OK, I bet we’ve piqued our listeners’ interest with that last one, but let’s start this episode up in Alaska!  

[music]  

Kerrin: Welcome to Klukwan, Alaska, where NREL’s northernmost building and energy experts are working with the Chilkat Indian Village to improve housing here near the Canada-Alaska border.  

Taylor: Here along the wide, braided Chilkat River and the massive snow-capped peaks, the Tlingit people have lived for thousands of years. Long before Alaska was a state, or the nearby fishing town of Haines appeared, this was a gathering spot for the Chilkat Tlingits who traveled to these shores by canoe to trade and share feasts of the region’s bounty. Charlene Katzeek, an Elder in the community, said Tribespeople would come from all over to celebrate with their clan.  

Charlene: I know they used to have parties up here— potlatch parties. And canoes would come here. 

Kerrin: The village has been around for thousands of years, but today, the small southeast Alaska community of 81 people is focused on its current housing: modular units imported from the lower 48 states in the 1970s.  

Taylor: Today they are dilapidated, leaky, and expensive to heat. They have high rates of mold, indoor air quality problems, and overcrowding. And as Charlene Katzeek told NREL, they are COLD. 

Charlene: These houses, when you didn't have no heat. Cold! Holy cow, freezing cold.  

Kerrin: The Tribe recently even passed a resolution declaring a housing emergency. 

Taylor: This is one of many problems Klukwan is tackling as part of a $1 million award through the U.S. Housing and Urban Development’s Office of Lead Hazard Control and Healthy Homes.   

Kerrin: Since 1999, the office has invested in hundreds of communities across the United States to make low-income households safer, healthier, and more affordable.   

Taylor: Over the past decade, NREL has assisted 15 Alaska communities to implement these programs.  

Kerrin: Which is why NREL is here now, in Klukwan, to partner with the Chilkat Indian Village— visiting 11 homes, interviewing residents, testing for lead paint and radon, and inspecting foundations, walls, windows, and appliances.  

Taylor: And this summer, the plan for each house will begin, performing building assessments and guiding retrofits to ensure these solutions deliver long-term health and economic benefits to residents.  

Kerrin: That’s right— and when we say economic benefits, we’re not just talking about improving housing but also building a local workforce that directly benefits the local economy.  

Taylor: It’s about housing and jobs. You need both to build a community, making Klukwan a more healthy, vibrant place to live.  

[music]  

Taylor: Well, I always love a little trip up to NREL’s Alaska Campus, but let’s check in on what’s happening at NREL’s campuses here in Colorado— specifically, the lab’s computational science department.  

Kerrin: Yes! Today, we’re talking about quantum computing, which— let’s first talk about what quantum computing actually is, because y’know, it’s not my area of expertise, Taylor, and unless you’re a computational scientist, it’s not exactly something everyone encounters in their day-to-day, is it?  

Taylor: You’re exactly right. So, when we talk about computing, we use the term ‘bits’ for units of digital information that represent either 0 or 1. In quantum computing, we use ‘qubits.’ 

Kerrin: And in theory, these qubits allow the computers to process exponentially more information using quantum mechanics. 

Taylor: This lets us solve calculations beyond regular computing capabilities. 

Kerrin: And quantum computing keeps hitting new milestones with more qubits, less errors, and better readouts of results.  

Taylor: And that’s super cool, but researchers at NREL want to know how these breakthroughs can help solve problems surrounding energy: things like power grid reliability and energy storage.  

Kerrin: Just like NREL’s research areas, quantum computers come in a variety of types. Some use light, others use atoms.  

Taylor: Those differences might make different quantum computers better suited to certain applications – but researchers need to work with the computer makers to help identify the best applications for each computer type.  

Kerrin: So, NREL has teamed with local quantum companies to develop benchmarks for quantum computers on problems that are important to energy science.  

Taylor: This will allow NREL and industry to prioritize practical utility for the next generation of quantum software and hardware.  

Kerrin: In teaming up with these quantum companies in Colorado, New Mexico, and Wyoming, NREL has become part of a collaborative network that has turned the region into what’s known as a Tech Hub. More than $100 million in federal and state funds are being invested into this hub, which is very cool! 

Taylor: And the benchmarks are a step closer to enabling us to utilize quantum to solve problems, ultimately helping us meet our energy goals.  

[music]  

Kerrin: Y’know Taylor, some things are just better with salt, aren’t they? Like french fries, a good margarita . . . and it turns out, solar cells.  

Taylor: I couldn’t agree more with the first two, but solar cells is a new one. But crazy enough, it’s true! Scientists at NREL have found that adding ionic salt in perovskite solar cells boosted their performance, efficiency, and durability.  

Kerrin: Yeah, crazy stuff! Adding this salt, known as CPMAC, resulted in the electron transport layer of the cell becoming three times stronger— and that layer is what is really important for generating electricity from sunlight.  

Taylor: Normally instead of salt, that layer is a fullerene layer— a type of carbon. It moves electrons triggered by sunlight through the cell, and that generates electricity.  

Kerrin: But fullerene’s molecular structure leads to a weak interface and limits the performance of the device— which, as you can imagine, is a problem for long-term stability. 

Taylor: So, for CPMAC to create a layer that is mechanically stronger is a good sign for long-term stability and durability. 

Kerrin: And it could help advance perovskite tech toward commercialization— just one more way NREL research is moving us closer to more resilient, affordable, and abundant energy solutions.  

Taylor: Always! Thanks everybody for joining us on the podcast today; we’ll be back in two weeks with more news from NREL.  

[music] 

Kerrin: This episode was adapted from NREL news articles from April and May 2025 written by Molly Rettig, Connor O’Neil, and Wayne Hicks. Our theme music is written and performed by Ted Vaca and episode music by Chuck Kurnik, Jim Riley, and Mark Sanseverino, of Drift B-C. The podcast is produced by NREL’s Communications Office at the National Renewable Energy Laboratory in Colorado.