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Taylor: Welcome to Transforming Energy: The NREL Podcast, brought to you by the U.S. Department of Energy’s National Renewable Energy Laboratory. We’re highlighting the latest in clean energy research and innovations happening at the lab. It’s Wednesday, November 27th. I’m Taylor Mankle.
Nataleah: And I’m Nataleah Small filling in for Kerrin today.
Taylor: Welcome back to the booth, Nataleah, always a pleasure having you here for a full episode!
Nataleah: Yes, thank you so much, Taylor! And this is a great episode to be on. We’re talking about some of my favorite things: STEM education, the people of NREL, and groundbreaking tech that could improve our heating systems.
Taylor: Plenty of important things to go over, let’s get into it.
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Taylor: As we move into the colder seasons of the year, I bet a lot of folks out there are already thinking about those heating bills. I know I am with my first full winter owning a home.
Nataleah: Oh my gosh, same here. When the winter comes around—oof—those numbers are no fun to look at! You and I are both thinking about this, and so are our NREL researchers. Working with industry representatives and researchers from Lawrence Berkeley National Lab, NREL scientists have determined energy stored in thermochemical materials can effectively heat indoor spaces, especially in humid regions.
Taylor: Now the key to this is salt-hydrate thermochemical materials, or TCMs— which is basically, salt that can store thermal energy in the form of water molecules. TCMs can be integrated into a building’s heating system, which could provide load flexibility – and decrease cost! Now let’s break down how this process works: The TCM is discharged and charged through hydration and dehydration reactions, respectively. Hydrating the salt releases heat, which is used to heat the building, and extra heat from the heat pump at other times of day is required to dehydrate, or charge, the TCM.
Nataleah: This means the reactor needs to interact with water vapor. This water vapor could come directly from ambient air, in which case the TCM is an open system. Or the TCM could be in an isolated chamber, emptied of air, which is known as a closed system.
Taylor: So, there are a few ways TCM could be used, which is important because these different systems work better in different climates. The researchers considered a range of climates and building types, examined several configurations, and paid particular attention to the source of water vapor.
Nataleah: And the configuration with the best results allowed the TCM reactor to heat the air exiting the building, which is at the same temperature and humidity as the indoor air. Once heated, the air then indirectly heats the incoming ventilation via a heat exchanger. This prevents the reactor from dehumidifying the indoor air and provides a sufficient humidity level.
Taylor: As the hot air, heated by the TCM, goes out, it warms the cold air coming in without drying everything out.
Nataleah: Exactly, you summarized that so perfectly. So, the research is still ongoing, and this is just the first step to understanding how we could implement TCM, but it’s an exciting look at how we could more efficiently heat our buildings. Those heating bills better watch out!
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Taylor: As we know, NREL is a research and development laboratory. We talk a lot about our researchers transforming the way the nation uses energy. But one thing we don’t talk about as much, but is just as important, is our work to inspire the next generation.
Nataleah: It’s such a fun aspect of NREL! NREL’s STEM – that’s science, technology, engineering, and mathematics, STEM – Education team is focused on showing young people that they have a place in renewable energy, even if they haven't had the opportunity to explore it before.
Taylor: The team’s approach is to build excitement, make it real, and help every student see themselves as part of the solution. And a big part of that is hands-on learning. Whether at NREL’s Golden campus or in classrooms, the Education team lets students roll up their sleeves, work with their hands, and explore complex ideas in real, tangible ways. Instead of pages in a textbook, kids are creating model wind turbines, running solar cells through efficiency tests, and more.
Nataleah: And it’s not just for young kids. NREL’s STEM education goes all the way up to collegiate competitions, which can boost students’ careers and provide valuable mentorship opportunities. It’s an investment the team has with students to keep them interested and show that they can impact the future of our energy systems.
Taylor: The Education team is also dedicated to reaching every student, making STEM accessible for everyone.
Nataleah: Yeah, that means going beyond traditional outreach and building bridges to underserved and underrepresented communities. By partnering with local schools and nonprofits, NREL is creating opportunities for students who may not have otherwise imagined themselves in the STEM fields.
Taylor: By reaching across barriers, the team is helping students imagine themselves in STEM careers and opening doors to new opportunities.
Nataleah: So, we did an episode on the education team back in July, and if you’re interested in meeting some of NREL’s fantastic Education team members, I recommend checking it out.
Taylor: It’s such valuable and inspiring work, not only for the students but for us too! I think the next generation is in great hands with our Education team.
Nataleah: Oh, yeah!
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Taylor: Nataleah, I want to thank you again for being in the studio with me today. As always, it’s great talking about the latest research and innovations happening at the laboratory. However, before we wrap up, I know you’ve brought something special for us today.
Nataleah: Yes, I did! So, as many of our listeners know, November is Native American Heritage Month. This is an annual observance to recognize and celebrate the contributions, achievements, traditions, and languages of Native American, Alaska Native, and Native Hawaiian people and affiliated island communities. In honor of this celebration, I spoke with two members of our Native American and Indigenous People employee resource group, Robby Strunk and Chan Charoonsophonsak who both work at our Alaska Campus. We discussed why they’re passionate about renewables and how they’re helping local communities access clean energy technologies. Without further ado, let’s get into a bit of that conversation.
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Robby: Waqaa, wiinga Tartuilnguugua. Anglillruunga Kuinerrami Atmaulluarmi-llu. Yupiaruunga. I said in my native Yup'ik language, ‘Hi, my name is Robert Tartuilnguq Strunk, I go by Robby, and I am Yup’ik, from Atmautluak and Quinhagak, Alaska.’ Those are two villages of about 800 and 400 people located in southwestern Alaska, and that’s where I grew up. Today, I am a research technician at NREL’s Alaska Campus.
Chan: My name is Chanachai, Chan, Charoonsophonsak. I am a researcher here at NREL’s Alaska Campus. I co-lead the Native American and Indigenous People ERG and I was also selected by DOE’s Arctic Energy Office to serve as the Arctic Energy Ambassador for two years to represent the north slope region.
Nataleah: Robby and Chan have spent most of their lives in Alaska. Robby grew up in rural villages in the southwestern part of the state, and at the age of three, Chan moved with his family from Bangkok, Thailand, to Utqiagvik, the largest city on the north slope. During their time in the state, Robby and Chan have witnessed the impacts of climate change, like worsening storms and melting permafrost, and understand Alaska’s unique energy challenges. Because many parts of Alaska are rural and isolated, energy is often expensive and inaccessible.
Chan: So, there are approximately 200 communities in the state that must basically provide and maintain their own independent microgrid power systems, and that’s a big deal. And that means that they’re running on diesel, and they are running on generators. Because they’re not on the road system, that means that transportation is also a big cost.
Nataleah: In some places, fuel is $11 per gallon and families can spend nearly half of their annual income on heating fuel. Chan views renewable energy as one way to address these challenges.
Chan: I believe that renewable energy is a great component of how we can solve the issues of climate change that we are facing, especially up in the Arctic where it’s most prevalent and most known, and where it’s basically happening right now.
Nataleah: Growing up, many homes in Robby’s community were powered by diesel generators. So, he remembers when renewable energy was introduced to his village.
Robby: So, back in 2009, around when I was in school, my community actually got three wind turbines installed in my community. So that was one of the things that I could visually see, everyday walking to school, playing out there around town, I saw the wind turbines and I was like, ‘Oh, that’s good electricity and that is good for the environment!’
Nataleah: Through middle school, Robby’s passion for renewable energy grew as he worked on science fair projects about wind energy and researched how many wind turbines it would take to power his community for a whole year. While studying Mathematics at the University of Alaska Fairbanks, he applied for an internship at NREL.
Robby: When I applied for this internship, my eyes were opened that science is not just people in lab coats with a lab hood working with Petri dishes. Like, science is everywhere. And I also learned that traditional science, traditional knowledge that I got from my ancestors, and from my elders, from my aunts and uncles—that is science.
Nataleah: After the internship, he transitioned to a research technician role and continues to use science to support tribal communities. In this role, he conducts surveys on homes built on thawing permafrost and evaluates the efficiency of heat pumps.
Robby: Our end goal is to be able to give recommendations for tribes and people throughout Alaska on which heat pump or what’s the best way to operate a heat pump in the cold temperatures.
Nataleah: Conducting housing surveys and engaging with communities are also components of Chan’s work. Like Robby, he pursued a job opportunity at NREL after graduating from the University of Alaska Fairbanks. As a first-generation college student, and first-generation immigrant, he wanted to use his degree to give back to his community. In his current role, he’s partnering with Iḷisaġvik College, one of the 35 accredited tribal colleges and universities in the U.S., to connect students with STEM careers.
Chan: When I was in college, I didn’t know what engineering was, I didn’t know what the degree was, I didn't know any of this until I was at least a sophomore. I want to inform young folks about what is out there and just to bring people out of their villages, out of their regions to explore and to visit.
Nataleah: Although there are challenges associated with bringing renewable, reliable power to rural Alaska, folks like Chan and Robby at NREL’s Alaska Campus are working to develop solutions that work for communities and meet their needs and goals. This Native American Heritage Month, and throughout the year, our listeners are encouraged to learn more about the ways NREL is working with Tribes and those living in extreme environments.
Chan: November should not just be the only month that we are honoring Native Americans or Indigenous People. It should be a thing that is every day. One month should not be more special than another day.
Nataleah: To learn more about NREL’s ongoing collaborations, visit State, Local, and Tribal Governments on nrel.gov.
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Taylor: What a fantastic conversation, Nataleah! I learned a lot about the unique energy challenges that face Alaskans in rural communities. And it’s also such a great reminder that our celebration and learning should extend far beyond the month of November.
Nataleah: Yeah, me too! I want to thank Chan and Robby for sharing their stories. Over the upcoming months, I’m excited to learn more about their work and the ways NREL is collaborating with Indigenous and Tribal communities in our northernmost state.
Taylor: Well said. What a lovely end to this episode.
Nataleah: Yes, so thank you so much, Taylor. And thanks everyone for joining us for another episode ahead of a holiday weekend! From all of us at NREL we hope you have a wonderful Thanksgiving.
Taylor: Well said, we are grateful for each of you and look forward to bringing you more news from the lab in a couple of weeks. Happy Thanksgiving, Nataleah.
Nataleah: Same to you, Taylor.
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Taylor: This episode was adapted from NREL news articles from November 2024 written by Wayne Hicks and Madelyn Weirich. Special thanks to correspondent Nataleah Small. Our theme music is written and performed by Ted Vaca and episode music by Chuck Kurnik, Jim Riley, and Mark Sanseverino, of Drift B-C. This podcast is produced by NREL’s Communications Office and recorded at the National Renewable Energy Laboratory in Colorado. We express our gratitude and acknowledge that the land we are on is the traditional and ancestral homelands of the Arapaho, Cheyenne, and Ute peoples. We recognize and pay respect to the Indigenous peoples of our past, present, and future, and are grateful to those who have been and continue to be stewards of this land.
