Lab Notes: Agrivoltaics—Where Agriculture and Solar Production Meet

In this Lab Notes episode, we explore the ins and outs of integrating solar energy with agriculture—also known as agrivoltaics! 

Learn about why agrivoltaics is vital for sustainable growth, along with NREL’s work in pioneering the technique from lead Agrivoltaics researcher Jordan Macknick. Then, dive into how agrivoltaics is evolving in the United States and the challenges of scaling these projects with Ethan Winter from American Farmland Trust. Finally, understand the critical role of equity and environmental justice in agrivoltaics through expert advice from behavioral scientist and researcher Dana-Marie Thomas. 

Uncover the benefits, challenges, and future of agrivoltaics in the United States in this episode as we shed light on its potential to support both energy and food security! 

This episode was hosted by Kerrin Jeromin and Taylor Mankle, written and produced by Allison Montroy and Kaitlyn Stottler, and edited by James Wilcox, Joe DelNero, and Brittany Falch. Graphics are by Brittnee Gayet. Our title music is written and performed by Ted Vaca and episode music by Chuck Kurnik, Jim Riley, and Mark Sanseverino of Drift BC. Transforming Energy: The NREL Podcast is created by the U.S. Department of Energy’s National Renewable Energy Laboratory in Golden, Colorado. We express our gratitude and acknowledge that the land we are on is the traditional and ancestral homelands of the Arapaho, Cheyenne, and Ute peoples. Email us at podcast@nrel.gov. Follow NREL on X, Instagram, LinkedIn, YouTube, Threads, and Facebook.

Transcript

[music] 

Taylor: Welcome to Transforming Energy: The NREL Podcast, brought to you by the U.S. Department of Energy’s National Renewable Energy Laboratory. I’m Taylor Mankle. 

Kerrin: And I’m Kerrin Jeromin. Today, we have a new episode in our Lab Notes series where we take a deeper dive into the research, people, and happenings at the lab.  

Taylor: In today’s Lab Notes, we’re exploring the topic of agrivoltaics, which pairs solar projects with agriculture— 

Kerrin: —Producing renewable energy while providing space for crops, grazing animals, and native habitats around solar panels. We’ll hear from a few guests about the benefits, the barriers, and other considerations for this quickly growing energy option. 

Taylor: Let’s head out to the fields! 

[music, farm sounds such as light wind, sheep & rooster sounds] 

Kerrin: We all have some vision of what an average American farm might look like. A picturesque red barn, surrounded by wide open spaces and skies, rows of flourishing crops, and maybe even a few cows and sheep dotting the fields and grazing nearby. But what you might not imagine are rows of carefully placed solar panels striping the landscape. 

Taylor: Underneath and between those rows of solar panels, native vegetation buzzes with bees and other pollinators, while the crops and grazing animals seem perfectly at ease with their new tech-savvy neighbors. 

Kerrin: This farm has embraced agrivoltaics—a blossoming energy option that NREL is working to help flourish. 

Taylor: NREL uses advanced modeling and analysis capabilities to provide foundational and actionable data on agrivoltaics and low-impact solar development that offers region-specific benefits and tradeoffs to ecosystems, grazing habitat, and crop production. 

Kerrin: And to learn more about NREL’s work in agrivoltaics, Taylor and I spoke with Jordan Macknick, who has led NREL’s Agrivoltaics research for more than a decade. Macknick is a global leader in energy-water-food nexus research whose work spans topics such as examining the water and land impacts of the energy sector, and identifying opportunities and synergies across energy, agriculture, and water sectors through the use of agrivoltaics. 

Taylor: Macknick also leads a team of multidisciplinary researchers through the InSPIRE project. InSPIRE stands for Innovative Solar Practices Integrated with Rural Economies and Ecosystems – the work explores the environmental compatibility and mutual benefits of solar development on agricultural land.  

Kerrin: And there are many sides to this coin. Agrivoltaics is still fairly new for some farming communities and, understandably, they still want to learn more about it.  

Taylor: Later in this episode, we’ll hear from another NREL researcher, Dana-Marie Thomas about the implementation of agrivoltaics in underserved farming communities where equity leads the conversation. 

Kerrin: —and we’ll also hear from Ethan Winter with the American Farmland Trust to hear more about the benefits and challenges still in the minds of the agriculture industry. 

Taylor: I’m excited! Let’s kick off our conversation with NREL’s Jordan Macknick.  

Kerrin: Thank you so much for speaking with us today all about agrivoltaics. I'm really excited to learn about your work and NREL’s work as well, so let's start with big picture. How do you explain what agrivoltaics is to someone who's unfamiliar? 

Jordan: So, agrivoltaics is really a very simple concept that has a lot of flavor and color in how it is deployed and what it ends up looking like, but at its most fundamental level, it is the practice of getting multiple mutual benefits between solar projects and land. So, this can be growing agriculture, growing crops underneath solar panels. It can be grazing animals underneath solar panels. It can be having native plants and pollinator habitat and bees making honey in and around solar panels. But we're finding a way to essentially combine our agricultural activities with solar production in ways that benefits both.  

Kerrin: So in a nutshell, why does it matter? 

Jordan: Agrivoltaics matters a lot, and we're seeing it matter more and more because solar is rapidly deploying all across the country right now. And this solar has to go somewhere, you know? We don't have enough rooftop space for all of our needs. We need to put some solar projects on land. If you are a solar developer, you're looking for land that is flat. You are looking for land that is close to roads, close to transmission, has been worked, and also has a willing landowner, willing to sell or willing to let you use your land. That sounds an awful lot like a farm, if you think about it. And so, we are seeing a lot of matchmaking between farmers and solar developers. And while this can be great, you know, we do have to think about other local perceptions, other community feedback of what solar development looks like in a rural landscape. We're seeing a lot of pushback against development in rural areas. Agrivoltaics allows us to address many of the concerns that community members have about agricultural land being taken out of production, concerns about what is—you know, how do we support our rural economies? How do we ensure we have a reliable food supply? Agrivoltaics helps us address those concerns while also helping us meet our clean energy goals.  

Taylor: Extremely well said Jordan. And to build off of that, let's take it to the NREL of it all. Tell us the intersection of our lab and how we're connected to this work.  

Jordan: So, NREL is a true pioneer in the agrivoltaics world, I think true to form. NREL, we actually first, had our first Agrivoltaics project all the way back in 2010. So, this was before really anyone was even saying the word “agrivoltaics.” NREL was experimenting. Back in 2010, there was really no research on what grew underneath solar panels. So, NREL being NREL, we decided let's try to figure out if plants can actually grow underneath solar panels, and if so, which plants are going to do best. Since then, our work has evolved. And since then, we've done a lot more in this space and through our INSPIRE project, which is Department of Energy funded. We have the largest, longest running, most comprehensive Agrivoltaics research project in the world. So, this is something that is very exciting and something that NREL has led now all the way since 2015.  

Taylor: Yeah! Tell us exactly about INSPIRE, Jordan. You know, what sparked it and currently, what is the mission? 

Jordan: So, INSPIRE was really The Department of Energy's first investment in agrivoltaics overall, and really one of the first efforts in agrivoltaics in the nation. Back then, when we first started it out, what we were most interested in is, is this even possible? Is this a thing? Is this something that is worthwhile for us to consider, us to look at? NREL helped step in, collect some foundational information about this, do some initial exploration, and help inform everyone else about what are the pros, the cons, the benefits, the tradeoffs, all that kind of stuff to really help everyone else make more informed decisions. And now, what we're most focused on is not just saying, “is this possible?” But doing a better job of enabling large scale advancement, development, deployment of agrivoltaics such that it can be done in a cost-effective way that is providing these mutual benefits. We have three core areas of work that we do within the INSPIRE project. One is really focused on coordinating across researchers all across the country. The second is based on producing foundational data sets and analysis that everyone can use. And the third is doing innovative field work. So, we currently are doing research at about 24 different sites all across the country right now. Many of these are the longest running agrivoltaic research sites in the country where we are collecting incredible amounts of data and really looking at long term impacts of these systems. But INSPIRE really, you know, serves as this organizing body for coordinating agrivoltaics research all across the United States. 

Taylor: Jordan, you broke down earlier kind of how the growth at NREL has happened, but talk to us maybe in a wider lens about the growth of just agrivoltaics and the entire industry and what you’ve seen in your very involved history with this space. 

Jordan: The pace of agrivoltaic development right now is astonishing. We are seeing so much excitement, so many new ideas, so many things expanding all across the country with agrivoltaics. We know solar is booming, but the rate of growth of agrivoltaics is outpacing even that standard rate of growth from the solar industry. So, as part of our work with the Inspire project, we are tracking all the different agrivoltaic projects that are deployed all across the country. We are now at over 500 projects and over 10 gigawatts of agrivoltaic projects in the nation. And we know for a fact, we are undercounting the number of agrivoltaic projects. It is growing so fast and nearly all of those projects have happened within the last two or three years. So things are rapidly expanding. We are doing our best to keep up and doing our best to track. But I think one thing we're realizing is that people are seeing what these benefits are. Companies are seeing what these benefits are, farmers are seeing what these benefits are, and they're recognizing, “hey, this might be for me.” And so, they're testing it out. And so that's, I think, a really exciting thing for us—just, there has been really a global boom in agrivoltaics all within seemingly the last three years. 

Kerrin: Jordan, you speak so eloquently about all the facts and the numbers and all those things—but personally to you, what's so exciting about this? Like what do you find ultimately fascinating? 

Jordan: I mean one thing that is exciting is that we are really, I still feel like at the very beginning of this field. It’s brand new. Even though we've seen such a rapid expansion, we know there's still a lot of space for creativity. There's a lot of space for new designs, people to figure out “how do I make agrivoltaics work for me?” Another aspect I find really exciting is that agrivoltaics is actually providing an opportunity for small farmers, for minority farmers, for other people that are oftentimes not necessarily getting all the benefits of our current agricultural industry. We're seeing an opportunity for them to actually benefit from this and not get left behind, but actually use this as a tool for creating generational wealth, for really establishing a long-term economically viable plan for their farm. And that part, you know, I think is also exciting. This is a disruption to our traditional agricultural system, and there's an opportunity here for so many different types of farmers to benefit who are maybe not benefiting from the current system. 

[music] 

Taylor: We now have the pleasure of being joined by a member of the American Farmland Trust—or AFT—to help us discover how agrivoltaics look in practice across the United States. Ethan Winter, welcome to Transforming Energy! Please, introduce yourself!  

Ethan: Great to be here. My name is Ethan Winter. I'm the National Smart Solar Director for American Farmland Trust. 

Taylor: Fantastic, Ethan. Really glad to have you here! And let’s dive a little deeper right there—briefly explain the American Farmland Trust for us.  

Ethan: Yeah! So American Farmland Trust was founded in 1980. It’s the oldest farmland protection agency working nationwide, and our mission is to save the land that sustains us by protecting farmland, promoting sound farming processes, and keeping farmers on the land. Just a little bit about me, how I got into this—I’ve been at AFT for three years and started as the Northeast Solar Specialist. It was the first position for American Farmland Trust focusing on solar, and pretty soon we realized that we couldn’t just have a regional position on this. This is a national phenomenon, and we needed to build a national platform. So I had the opportunity to take the national director role. Been in that role for about a year and a half. And I came into this work from community solar development, working for a leading national developer in New York and Massachusetts on community engagement and project development. Before that I had a background in land conservation for a national organization called the Land Trust Alliance. This kind of bridging of domains is exactly what we’re talking about here, right? Understanding conservation principles, understanding agriculture, understanding solar, and how this is going to be integrated for the transition in front of us. American Farmland Trust has about 65,000 members. We have about 200 staff, and I work across eight regional programs—New England, New York, New Jersey, Mid-Atlantic, Southeast, Midwest, Texas, Pacific-Northwest, and California. I mention that because this work is playing out in each state in a somewhat-different way as you would know, and regionally. We’re trying to build some coherence again, across this sort of national frame, but also, where we can, drilling in more deeply at the state level, where state policies are happening, where state farmland protection is really defined. I would say that we’re doing our best to do that. We’re still building out this platform, so it’s the early days. 

 Kerrin: When it comes to Agrivoltaics in particular, let’s talk a bit about the organization’s journey with agrivoltaics. So how has AFT kind of changed over the years? Has it always welcomed agrivoltaics or has that kind of evolved over time?  

Ethan: In terms of have we always welcomed agrivoltaics, I think this has been a journey for us. What we're finding is that farmers are interested in solutions that support farm viability. Makes sense, right? We have an aging demographic in America where the average age of farmers is over 60, and over the next 10 or 15 years, we could see a very significant hundreds of millions of acres change hands. And if there's not a viable farm model, that land will be converted, right? It will go into something other than agriculture. So again, solar is coming now, intersecting with that kind of aging demographic, and we see some real opportunities with agrivoltaics to excite a next generation of farmers— a diverse pipeline of farmers who could be working in agrivoltaics. This is going to be very different in different states, but we are starting to see interest across the country as states are getting their heads around “how in the world do we meet that renewable portfolio standard that sounded really good, but now is going to need hundreds of thousands of acres of potential farmland?” That's where agrivoltaics can play a key role. And again, AFT, our first order of principle is supporting farmers and supporting farm viability. So we're very interested in agrivoltaics as a potential solution. We are trying to set a standard that's robust and achievable and has stackable benefits to the agricultural community. We are looking to Europe and Asia and, you know, other countries that have maybe been a little bit farther along in terms of their start on this, but there's going to be a truly American model for how agrivoltaics plays out. And again, with NREL by our side, we're very much working on that. 

Taylor: Fantastic Ethan, a wonderful approach and so well described, to go a little bit deeper on that approach itself, let’s talk about the challenges. You’ve had such a good perspective through this journey of agrivoltaics, especially when considering the scales that your organization, the American Farmland Trust, operates within. What kind of challenges do you see? What are the big challenges that come with agrivoltaics?  

Ethan: Well first, of course, it's new, right? And a lot of agricultural communities right now are kind of on their heels, because solar deployment is happening very quickly and at a very significant scale in certain markets, and so there's almost sort of an immediate like reaction to solar and who's driving this. So a lot of this is about, you know, the motives and intentions behind what's happening, and unpacking that's really important. In terms of barriers, trust is a key issue. We've been doing farmer surveys around the country to understand how are farmers thinking about solar and who do they trust as sources of technical assistance and information? No surprise, maybe, that extension agents and other farmers really rank very high. So we've recognized that that's a key approach for us as we're overcoming those barriers early on, is developing peer-to-peer learning opportunities for farmers, tangible demonstration projects, and essentially spaces where farmers can interact with each other on their own terms. That's really important. And this is not a giant switch that we're going to be able to flip overnight, which is challenging with the Inflation Reduction Act and billions of dollars coming down the pike here for solar, this transition is going to take some time. If we do it well, we'll go farther with this. So trust is really important, you know, who the messengers are is important, and developing proof-of-concept at different scales is really important. And we are understanding the nuances. You know, having let's say a 50-kilowatt system in the back of your farm is one thing, 5-megawatts of community solar on a portion of your farm where you can do agrivoltaics is another animal. a project that's covering 3,000 acres across two counties on a landscape scale is a totally different animal, and agrivoltaic solutions are going to look differently across those scales. 

Taylor: Super well said and of course the inverse of that which seems to be weaved through the majority of this conversation are what are the advantages or opportunities that excite you about this space, as we just scratch the surface it seems... 

Ethan: Well, that's something we're very interested in seeing more research on, but we're also seeing this happen and working in real time. So again, we support more research to understand the potential. We're also really encouraging incentives so that we can start now and learn by doing. Farming is a challenging business; we have to be able to create some space for experimentation here, and I'm really excited about that. We actually have to be able to fail within some of these programs to learn what works. And I think that's what we've seen maybe in some of the early programs is, you know, a real concern that we might be giving too much away to the solar development community, and so very conservative requirements for agrivoltaics incentives, and that means very little adoption, which means we're not doing a whole lot to show what we can do. So, we are encouraging state regulators to think about, you know, have clear guardrails, put farmers very much in the middle of this, have a pilot program where you can learn, and then adjust the pilot program as it goes. But make sure that it's a program that's actually moving the needle for solar and isn't something that only 1 in 100 or 1 in 1,000 projects can actually achieve, because we're not then really moving the needle. But in terms of opportunities, certainly water conservation is showing up as a key theme in especially west of the Mississippi, to the extent that solar panels can be providing beneficial microclimates to crops and livestock and farm workers. That's really interesting. Again, more of an issue in the west than it is in the east. We're really interested in seeing how conservation practices that regenerate soil health can be integrated into agrivoltaics. So, for example, with sheep or potentially cattle grazing, how can that be done in a way that's utilizing pretty well established regenerative practices to build your soil characteristics during the life of these solar projects? And this is how we get to that promised land of the land's going to be better at the end of the solar project than we found it. And then finally, putting all this together, I think the Holy Grail is that this does unlock new land access opportunities. As you think about farmers transitioning to a next generation or a diverse new pipeline of farmers who can't afford to buy land, but have expertise to grow or to be shepherds within a solar array, and those farmers and producers are going to need skills, they're going to need insurance, they're going to need qualifications that, you know, the solar industry can really accept. And we're starting to see that right now. 

Kerrin: How would you kind of sell this to a someone if you will? How do you talk about agrivoltaics to someone who is hesitant about it? Basically, why should they go forward with agrivoltaics on their farm and their land?  

Ethan: It's a great question. And we don't necessarily start with that question. And I think that's a really important thing to highlight. We have been convening farmers around the country where we have the funding to do so to, again, get to get to that question. But the first question we might ask is, where are you as a farm operation? How is climate and extreme weather affecting your resilience and your viability as a farm? Do you want to stay in farming? Are you interested in adapting to new models? Do you have a next generation that wants to take the farm or not? Lots of farmers actually do not have a successor, and those are really important questions. So, first of all, understanding the context helps us then get to the question of are you interested in potentially understanding this new approach that allows for solar energy generation, lease income, potentially additional streams of income because of the ag production for the life of the project? And our surveys have shown that roughly a third of farmers are pretty interested; they've heard about agrivoltaics, and they're saying, “Tell me more. Not going to jump in the pool just yet, but give me some good information.” And there's about a third that says, “I don't think so. This is not my jam. Doesn't work for me.” And you can imagine, especially older farmers, this just sounds like the new flavor of the day, and I'm going to stick with what I'm doing. And then there's at least 30, 40% of the farmers we ask say, “I'm not sure. You know, I'm actually not sure. I'm going to sort of hold out on making a decision until I've learned more.” And that's the group that I think is really important for us to be engaging with good information. That information ultimately needs to get channeled to your agricultural extension programs, your state land grant universities, and other trusted voices. And that's how you end up, again, understanding where a farmer is; trusted voices, examples that work—that they can literally kick and walk around and look at—are going to be really important parts that that conversion, if you will. But the main thing is we need incentives that are going to make developers really want to do this, because it adds complexity. Again, if this is a race or kind of too extractive, farmers may sort of back off, so this is going to be a process of building trust over time. But that's what we're doing! We're literally convening farmers around picnic tables and at farm conferences and introducing this concept, providing research—some of it is very much the NREL research—and having that conversation. And hopefully there's an incentive structure that we can provide as an anchor. In other words, the way to really unlock this, Kerrin, is to make sure that agrivoltaics is meeting kind of those regional market realities as much as possible. And that means your agrivoltaics incentives and programs are going to be somewhat adjusted to, you know, what kind of agricultural sector and growing conditions you have in those areas. And once farmers start to see that I think you're going to see a lot of interest. And not that it's a concern for us, but we're kind of bracing ourselves. I think we're pretty close to some thresholds here where farmers say, “You know what, this sounds like a really good idea, because now I can get some income diversification. And I hear the solar developers are interested, I hear there's some incentive out there. Where do I go next? Who do I trust to actually design a project where my farm is kind of in the middle of the business model?” And that's where technical assistance and training and real collaboration with the industry is going to be critical in the next years ahead. 

Kerrin: And so that actually brings me to my last question, is how the connection or partnership with NREL has been beneficial. You’ve mentioned, essentially sharing NREL research as a talking point as your introducing this whole concept of agrivoltaics, but talk more about that partnership and how that’s been beneficial to your work. 

Ethan: Yeah, the National Renewable Energy Lab has been a really important voice and leader in this space. And give a lot of props to the NREL team and Jordan Macknick and his colleagues in this area, because they identified early on some real opportunities, and others are obviously catching on. So, you know, NREL has been a key presence in this food, energy, water research space. We've taken that research and thought a lot about, you know, how does this play into what we're talking about in terms of training and technical assistance to farmers, on-the-ground practices, and what kind of policy structures are we going to need to actually do this. And importantly, it's including social science, so it's not just the technological aspects, but what are these social acceptance pathways? It's going to be really important for farmer adoption. So NREL has been right there. The InSPIRE program, you know, has been a resource. We often refer folks to the data portal, where you can access peer review papers and other research. That's a really nice clearinghouse of research. And the other, I think, really important role that NREL and DOE folks play is in connecting with their counterparts at USDA, and that's building that bridge to other agencies. We have deep connections and longstanding relationships with USDA at American Farmland Trust. We've been encouraging the agencies to really work together. This is a thing, and we have to make sure, again, that we don't get ahead of ourselves, and that means being patient enough to bring farmers along, while also pushing for policy innovation and pushing it, you know, sort of as far as we can. You know, NREL also understands that our work is informed by other principles besides just the agrivoltaics piece. And I think they've been really receptive to this. So another principle of ours is safeguarding soils and making sure that there are good construction practices that protect soil, that you have solid decommissioning standards, so that these projects can be removed if they're not going to be repowered in the future, and so you have productive land back. And I think NREL has also been a leader in understanding and leading on distributed generation. So you know, what we're looking at is, how can solar be deployed on all sorts of surfaces, whether it's water bodies, landfills, brownfields. NREL has been very much in that area as well, and we'd like to see land pressures reduced. Right? So if we can put more distributed solar in lots of other places, that should reduce some of the pressures on our best agricultural land if agrivoltaics is not going to be a solution there. Our last principle is around equity and farm viability. And this is where I take a lot of inspiration from NREL in terms of their approach in working with underserved communities. And, of course, you know, implementing Justice 40, but thinking about how do we make sure that this is an energy transition that's beneficial to all. And we're doing our best to do that ourselves in our farm programs, and really making sure that we're not leaving certain farm communities behind. 

[music] 

Taylor: What a perfect way to close out our conversation with Ethan and transition directly to our final guest today, NREL Researcher and Behavioral Scientist within the Strategic Energy Security Group of NREL’s Energy Security and Resilience Center, Dana-Marie Thomas. Who will help us better understand how NREL is making sure we don’t leave underserved communities behind with this work. 

Kerrin: To begin our conversation Dana-Marie please share with our audience more about the importance of equity and environmental justice when it comes to agrivoltaics. 

Dana-Marie: We know agriculture makes up a significant portion of greenhouse emissions. And so, when we were thinking about decarbonization strategies, it does impact energy equity in the environment. There's an environmental justice component. There's a food security component, health, there's local economics, there's workforce development, education and more. So, it's really like a holistic type of health and functionality of our food systems, when I think of agrivoltaics. And so, with specifically like working with these BIPOC farming communities, they are really often at the forefront of food protection for their communities. So, they are particular to vulnerable like disruptions.  

Taylor: As you mentioned, you work closely with a number of BIPOC, or black, indigenous, or people of color, farmers. When it comes to agrivoltaics, or AV if you will, in these communities what are some of the potential impacts that excite you and members of the community?  

Dana-Marie: Well, the potential of agrivoltaics can support energy security. Because obviously, you know, we're integrating renewable energy with agricultural practices. So this means to me like there's an alignment that strengthens our work and how we can help improve resilience and security around these agriculture and food sectors, particularly in these underserved rural and tribal communities, so that they can be prepared to withstand and recover from energy disruptions. So specifically, like so AV, it can help these communities by providing a reliable and decentralized energy source. It reduces their dependence on centralized power grids, and I think it also helps integrate like supply chain resilience because it will help stabilize food and energy production. So, then you're reducing the risk to supply chain disruptions.  

 Kerrin: I’d love to hear more about your work with these communities, I know one project that you were involved with at NREL involved the Black Farmers Collaborative, where NREL provided technical assistance through the Clean Energy to Communities Program. That technical assistance provided planning support and modeling to provide insight on installation costs, energy output, and crop production. Talk more about what these experiences are like working directly with communities. 

 Dana-Marie: Well, working with communities, particularly the BIPOC farming community, there's no cookie cutter. All of them have different needs and levels of education, including capacity. The Black Farmers Collaborative for me, is where it all started with Reverend Jerry Neely. He is in Beallsville, Florida and he really wanted to do a lot of work around AV, educating the community, but he also wanted to link AV in terms of workforce development for the prison system, to help from a recidivism standpoint. So that's where the education came. So most of the farming communities that I've worked with from the from the BIPOC community are now participants of these actual middle portfolio in terms of the agrivoltaics cohort. It's a relatively new concept. So, we're really still in the education phase—knowing how to educate the farmers themselves, but then also the broader community. And what does that look like in terms of job creation? So, helping starting out by saying, “OK, Now let's work with farmers of the community to help expose them to farming.” Then it's, “OK. Well, what is a solar panel? What is an array? What are terms like irradiance?” 

 Taylor: It seems like proper education, integration, and support of agrivoltaics within these underserved communities could be transformative. 

 Dana-Marie: There's so much in this area, so it's not just about the technology. It's not just about the equity, this is about a life and based on our work that we're doing here at the lab, it is lifesaving. You're changing generational wealth and once we get a holistic lens to these problems—remember people, places and technology, those are the buckets that I really deal in, and these farmers are part of that people bucket. 

 Kerrin: Love that Dana-Marie! With that being said, agrivoltaics seems to be rapidly growing, and we’ve heard a lot about expansion, but especially as we consider conducting this work equitably, what do you see as our next critical step? 

 Dana-Marie: Addressing these issues that we've discussed requires a concentrated effort in my opinion, to help create a more inclusive, supportive environment within academia, within research institutions, within the lab space, right? What comes next, I think would be to build coalitions to do research, to help even provide training on how to complete applications for funding, to help educate in the school systems you know around curriculums, and just creating a more inclusive and tolerable environment, where this is recognized as just as a priority as, for example, a cyber. Let's recognize that the different work that's done at the lab, because it has a human dimension component, is just as important to AI issue or a cyber issue. This is a people issue, and we're people. At least, there should be empathy and understanding and wanting a population that has lacked for so long to want to get caught up. We at the lab—what are we transforming, energy? I think we're a part of transforming people too. 

[music] 

Taylor: So well said. I’m so glad we got to dive deeper into this emerging space today, we hope our guests gave you some impactful insights into the future of agrivoltaics. 

Kerrin: I know! I learned so much, and honestly, I know there’s so much more to learn about this topic, right? We can only cover so much in a show. So, NREL’s work will be instrumental in taking this clean energy practice into the future. 

Taylor: And speaking of the future, we’ll be back soon with more news from the lab! 

Kerrin: Yes, we hope you’ve enjoyed this special Lab Notes edition of Transforming Energy: The NREL Podcast. If you like what you hear, be sure to tell your friends about the show and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform.  

[music] 

Taylor: This episode was written by Kerrin Jeromin and myself, Taylor Mankle. Special thanks to Harrison Dreves and Sara Fall for their contributions, and to our guests Jordan Macknick, Dana-Marie Thomas, and Ethan Winter. Our theme music is written and performed by Chuck Kurnik, Jim Riley, and Mark Sanseverino of Drift B-C, and episode music by Ted Vaca. This podcast is produced by NREL’s Communications Office and recorded at the National Renewable Energy Laboratory in Colorado. We express our gratitude and acknowledge that the land we are on is the traditional and ancestral homelands of the Arapaho, Cheyenne, and Ute peoples. We recognize and pay respect to the Indigenous peoples from our past, present, and future, and are grateful to those who have been and continue to be stewards of this land.